Today's Out Spotlight is Hong Seok-cheon, South Korean male model,actor and restauranter.
Born February 3, 1971, Hong shocked Korean society to the core and created controversy when he came out as gay in 2000. He was the first celebrity in Korea to come out and the most prominent Korean celebrity to do.
Hong Seok-cheon had appeared on South Korean television programs marketed to children as well as variety shows. He also appeared in the thriller films Ggotcheul deun namja (English release titled Man Holding Flowers) in 1997, and the 2001 film Hera Purple as well as a 1998 romantic release entitled Tie a Yellow Ribbon.
Since coming out, his career has been like a roller-coaster ride. First, the phone stopped ringing no one willing to offer him work. He went into hiding, living in a small rented room and contemplated suicide.
He did find those who in the acting community who supported his decision. "When I first confessed that I would come out to my [drama] professor [Choi Hyung-in], she warmly hugged me. I could live in her encouragement. Without Choi's supports, there are not many actors who go their own way",
He turned to the restaurant business, when his future when he saw his acting career become uncertain after coming out , giving him a new start and purpose. "To me, my restaurants are people. After I came out, I had to endure so much hostility. I missed seeing my friends and my supporters so much at the time. I thought if I open a restaurant, they could come and visit me. That is how I came to open my first restaurant, 'Our Place'." First came Italian restaurant "Our Place", then Thai restaurant "My Thai", then Thai-Chinese fusion restaurant "My China" and then karaoke and wine place "My Song Bar". Hong now has 5 successful restaurants worth over 4 billion South Korean Won.
In 2005 he appeared with his parents on the Korean talk show Lee Honglyol, Park Ju-mi's Yoyumanman to discuss his life after coming out of the closet. And in 2008, he published his first book,"Design Your Own Restaurant" saying "I wanted to publish a book like this to celebrate 10th anniversary of my coming out, but it came a bit earlier than expected",
The book, celebrates his successful transformation form suddenly-out-of-work actor to financially independent restaurateur. but his journey as an out gay man in Korean society as well. "I tried to write about how to make fewer mistakes rather than how to succeed. Because people had misconceptions about me, I endured the tough years with sheer determination".
Despite the ups and downs, acting was never completely out of the picture. With time and acceptance, parts start to come his way, and soon he was back doing his first love, acting. Showing up in various projects, not always in the biggest roles, he has become admired for his courage and resilience not only in the actor community but by South Koreans as well.
Recently Hong adopted his two nephews, sons of his older sister, who divorced last year, officially starting his own family. Furthermore, last February, he filled out a form requesting for their last names to be changed to “Hong”, and the application was accepted and his wish granted. This means that he has become the third Korean celebrity to ever successfully change the last names of his children.
Today, Hong has returned to acting, oversees his restaurant ventures, published, and has a family of his own and is comfortable with who he is.
"It's not that people are crazy about anyone being homosexual, but the idea is out and being accepted that you can be different"
"After I set my foot in the entertainment business, I only thought about popularity, money and fame. But I changed a lot after I came out in 2000. I still think it was the right thing to do. I had many difficulties since then, but because I'm an optimistic person, I didn't run away but squarely faced the world. If I had run away at the time, I don't think I'd be as happy as I am right now".
Sunday, September 6, 2009
Out Spotlight XCVI
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68 comments:
Excellent Spotlight today. Interesting life story for Mr. Hong; just goes to show how careers change and sometimes constantly evolve for some people. I admire anyone who changes careers mid-stream and also is so talented to do various things. That's kind of odd for him to adopt his sister's children just because she's divorced? I'm sure we're missing some details there. Maybe in Korea it is different for divorcees? I was going to say for a single parent, but that can't be the case since that is what he is. All in all, really interesting reading this morning.
I was on Just Jared this morning and came away with 3 observations. 1) why is Jennifer Garner constantly followed? She and Violet must be on JJ every day. I'm not sure I get that. I didn't realize she was that huge of a star. 2) we think Jake's not smiling much these days? Well, that Chris Pine guy never smiles. He is as stoic as they come. and 3) Those comments on Jake's post about the salon trip were ridiculously mean and ugly.
What I can't figure out is the people themselves who made the comments. Are they truly prejudiced toward the gay community? Are they merely angry at Jake for bearding and trying to be what, funny? Insiders? What? I am not getting their agenda at all when the comments they make combined with the tone with which they make them, are just simply mean spirited. They're not funny. They're not teasing. They're just plain mean.
And yet someone like Wentworth Miller will get an occasional post on JJ and the majority of his comments are filled with "Wenty!"'s and "Love Wentworth" or if they make references to his sexuality, they usually seem to be said with a wink, not this mean spirited, hateful tone.
So I have to shake my head at Jake's people and continue to wonder what their plan is for their client at this point. What their big pot of gold is at the end of the rainbow for him? Because I'm not sure that I'm seeing an overflow of reaping benefits. Maybe Reeke has a different story to tell, huh?? I'd be curious to hear them.
But looking at it from just a marketing standpoint, (and not an image standpoint because to the Soccer mom who pours over the rags at their local Great Clips Jake & Reese are indeed a couple and probably planning to wed any day now) is it really accomplishing what they want? They're not getting coverage anymore. I don't see how that can be denied or explained anymore with a variety of excuses.
Reeke has ceased to be tabloid material, hands down. It's been too long now. They've had just a handful of pictures in the major ones in probably the last 6 months, at least, if not longer. They are no longer People.com material; haven't been for the past 6 months or so. I think I've only seen them on there a few times, that's it. Kendra, Jessica Simpson, those Kardashian girls, etc are getting their screen acreage.
So, the side benefits are really escaping me. I thought one of the purposes of the whole deal is to be seen & buzzed about. So while Brangelina and Tom & Katie still get coverage, Reeke's star has simply fallen out of the sky it seems to me.
I'm just basing this on what I'm seeing and observing. Maybe there's some big marketing firm that Reeke uses that is telling them different but boy, I sure don't know what they could be conjuring up. Looking at the comments aimed at Jake on the blogs? If I was his manager? It would make me hurt for him. I just would be wondering if I was doing the right thing or doing all that I could to help get him the kind of work that would help fulfill his life.
Wow! What a beautiful example Spesh. It is what I wish for Jake.
Jake said he would change the rules in HW. Somewhere he lost his dream. His sad face tells me he has had enough. He needs to surround himself with people who inspire him to take chances again and not folks who tell him to continue to be ashamed of who he is. I wish the same for Austin. How sad your own mother would support the advice to live a lie. Jake will never be happy till he finds the courage that Hong did.
The difference between Jake and Wentworth PG is that Jake inspired people. He teased them and then he hurt them. I can understand the anger and disappointment.
Jake took his charade just a few steps too far PG. First he refused to acknowlege publicly the death of the man who played a huge part in making Jake a star. Then he gave the finger to those fans who still refused to fall for his lies. I understand the anger. I dont make comments on JJ or even read them but I understand them.
I can understand anger, Tom, heck, you've seen how I can be. Everyone has.
I guess it's always just different to see it from another chair in the room so to speak. It's never pretty. I wish I could remember that, too, when I go off.
But look at some of those, Tom. I mean, they're like slurs against the gay community. If you were just angry about the bearding, I don't think you would say some of that stuff. Some of those comments are like hate crime kind of stuff.
I just hate to see that.
And where in the heck is Wentworth, anyway?
Korean culture is very traditional and conservative and coming out would create a controversy that most other cultures couldn't even match.
Reading about Hong, it was interesting that he still had a journey after coming out, and that he was so open about his lowest points after he did. Some would say that could discourage people from coming out, but it showed honesty about it not always as easy for some people as others.
I like how he found inspiration from missing seeing his friends to creating a place so that could come and visit him. What an example finding success through something that might have been a roadblock to others.
PG I am not sure about the the Korean culture and divorce and the adoption of his nephews.
While researching for the Out Spotlight I saw this:
Samantha Fox set to tie the knot with her longtime partner
Congrats Sam and Myra!
Know some of you are having an 80's flashback moment.
Repost from WFT":
Maggie G Marie Claire interview, source WDW scans:
There are perils attached to be being a celebrity couple, of course - though the fact that both have largely eschewed main-stream projects has ensured a level of anonymity. ‘When Ramona was born, it was bad,’ Gyllenhaal says. ‘We were living in the West Village [in New York], where all the paparazzi are, and it got to be a little frenzy.’
Since then, the family has upped sticks to a relatively tranquil area of Brooklyn. ‘And they never bother us here in London’, she adds. ‘We were at Wimbledon, walking around with sausages and champagne, and we thought, "We are so lucky we can do this." My brother can’t do that, and I don’t want to give it up.‘
It is, indeed, a different story for her brother, Jake, for whom celebrity arrived earlier, and whose status as a Hollywood heart-throb and beau of Reese Witherspoon has meant that his experience of fame has been less enjoyable. They are still close, but it is hard not to wonder whether such differences have caused a tangible shift in their relationship. ‘Of course, everybody does change as they grow up,’ she answers carefully, ‘but I think it’s really hard for him, that stuff. It’s hard for anybody who has to figure out a way to manage it. Like in Los Angeles, I don’t always know where to avoid going - sometimes you just walk into a paparazzi nest. I get so angry, really upset,' she says protectively, her voice flaring a little. 'They chase him in their car and it's just different for him. More than anything I feel sorry for him that he has to deal with that.’
They chase him
different for him
sorry for him
he has to deal with
Notice she doesn't say "they" or "them."
PG, re your comment about Jake's PR campaign and how it has not paid off, I think what we see here is PR's mistaken assumption that they are the ones that make a star. It's fans who make a star and you can lead them to water but cant make them drink. No PR campaign created the hoopla around Jake after BBM. It was all the people moved by the heart breaking film and his terrific portrayal of Jack that created the wave. Jake had a loyal following and tons of fans until PR stepped in. Now look where he is. He is Mr Witherspoon and has lost the respect of Hollywood. Another example is Pattinson. No PR created that phenomenon. It's rabid fans that made him a star, no PR campaign needed.
If Jake had had 1 pap photo shoot every week or 2, photos and sightings of him out with a variety of "dates" (men, women and Austin) and more charity and causes coverage, he would have been fine. He would have maintained his exposure and kept the mystery, charisma and charm all while having a huge chunk of private life. But noooooo he had to go the beard route with the most self-centered narcissistic overbearing famewhore in HW. Live and learn.
Anonymous said...
Wicked has come to her senses and left the fandom. She now knows Reeke is real. You won't be hearing anything from her anymore. She's too embarrassed.
September 06, 2009 3:26 PM
LOL, funny troll!
Anon, number one, you need to put a name on your comment or it's getting deleted and everyone's not going to get to see your comment like you want.
Secondly, you don't know diddley about Wicked and her limited comments. How dare you speak like you know.
Let's respect Wicked for whatever reason she's not around as much. I wouldn't be speaking about something like that unless you're living with her and I know that's not the case.
Trolly, Wicked can speak for herself. Bubba Babbler, stop conjuring up stories to further your love for Reese.
grrrr, that just makes me mad.
Well, we are back from an unsuccessful trip to the Deanna Rose Farmstead. And I do mean unsuccessful, lol.
Today the Farmstead was visited by some Kona Ice truck that had shaved ice (which we all love) but unfortunately, those things draw the honey bees in droves. So these honey bees were all over the place. And even though those things don't sting, they terrify the kids and my nephew, especially. Which, he managed to keep his composure, but we had to curtail our trip short.
Then, we get into my car and my niece says "There's something on his leg!!" And somehow there was a honeybee in the car. So, we had a little pagaentry & drama getting the tiny bee out of the car.
Ah geez. I'm going to email that Farmstead and tell them not a bright idea to bring all that syrup in when there's so many little kids around.
There was a little girl who was supposed to throw 2 cups into the trashcan but she froze in mid-stride in front of me and I turned to see all kinds of little honeybees swirling around the top of the trashcans. So I took her cup for her to the trash. Poor thing - she was just frozen to the spot.
Brother. Trauma at the Deanna Rose Farmstead.
What else do you expect us to chase, dirt? Spinach? Broccoli?
Yeah, that'd be nice. lol.
So then in order to help my nephew laugh about it, I told him & my niece about the time I was walking home from school, accepted a ride from a friend and somehow a cricket had gotten into my pants and was biting me all the way home. Man, did that hurt.
I didn't know, of course, until I got home & tore my pants off, lolll! But that's what it was, a cricket. Told them that I've never been a fan of crickets ever since. So we've had a discussion about all the bugs & insects that we don't like and why.
A little therapy. Gee, made me re-live that cricket incident, though, lol. That wasn't fun. Still kind of traumatizes me.
Fascinating spotlight today Special. I love reading about people in other countries who have come out, especially in places like Korea that are so conservative. And I can't help it, but when I look at someone like that, and see how much courage they have, and tne look at people like Jake and Ausitn, or any other star, especially the ones with tons of money and fame, and I just shake my head.
Totally agree with your comments M and Failed.
Regarding the nasty comments and Maggie's comments about Jake. Jake brings on so much of that himself. I think the comments about people who are lying and bearding are nasty in part because people look at someone like Jake and see what a phony he is. People do not like being lied to, and I think a closeted man in particular just really brings out the worst in commentators. You don't see nasty comments like that about Quinto or NPH.
As for the paps? Maggie is full of it. Jake brings on a lot of that himself, calling the paps for Reeke, going to places, and living in LA, where he knows that goes on. I think Jake has a love/hate relationship with the paps. I think he gets off on the attention, but wants it on his own terms. You can't have it both ways. And I think after all this time there are probably still some paps hoping to catch him with Austin or other men. When you live your life as a lie, there are always going to be people out to catch you at it.
I don't know. The current m.o is more Reese's way of getting pics than Jake's. If you notice she does the same thing with her kids or even by herself. As soon as she gets back home or somewhere BOOM, first thing get pictures. Jake use to be just going about doing his stuff, would to go to Urth Cafe which is a paps, alot,vhe and Kiki used to shop and egt coffee in pap friendly but it wasn't as heavy handed, even though he was out more often. I think now its more appointment kind of things and is so much more glaring.
I think what we see here is PRs mistaken assumption that they are the ones that make a star. Its fans who make a star and you can lead them to water but cant make them drink. No PR campaign created the hoopla around Jake after BBM. It was all the people moved by the heart breaking film and his terrific portrayal of Jack that created the wave. Jake had a loyal following and tons of fans until PR stepped in. Now look where he is. He is Mr Witherspoon and has lost the respect of Hollywood. Another example is Pattinson. No PR created that phenomenon. Its rabid fans that made him a star, no PR campaign needed.
I have posted about this subject a handful of times on WFT2, because it covers an area that I have professional experience with, and I will say the same thing here that I said there: this idea expressed by M and others is completely wrong. Fans do not make actors into stars, films make actors into stars. And fans of a film are not the same as fans of an actor. A fanbase is next to useless when it comes to actors, a fact that studios are very aware of.
This myth that Jake had this tons of fans until PR drove them off, and that fans are vital to success is just that, a myth. Zodiac was post BBM, pre Rendition and pre Reeke. It had a great script, a great director, great cast, great critical response, and had a lead actor (Jake) who was riding the wave of his BBM success and...it crashed and burned at the box office. It was a dismal failure.
How could this happen if Jake was so popular? Simple. Because fans do not matter, films do. Johnny Depp is an undoubted A list film star with a loyal fanbase and, after smashing the box office with POTC and Charlie and the Chocolate factory, he starred in The Libertine which...made a lifetime total of $10 million dollars. Worldwide. That is less than one tenth of the North American opening weekend gross of either of the POTC sequels. How could this happen if Johnny is so popular? Simple. Fans do not matter, films do.
Your mention of Robert Pattinson just illustrates this exact point even further. You say that his rabid fanbase has made him a star? It has not. TWILIGHT has made him a star. TWILIGHT has meant he now has a rabid fanbase, but that fanbase is there for the TWILIGHT, first and foremost and almost exclusively.
Robert Pattinson was riding the wave of Twilight with his star in the ascendency when he starred in Little Ashes. With all of his hype and huge, rabid fanbase flocking to see it, the film made a grand total of...less than half a million dollars. Worldwide. Lifetime.
Fans of actors are almost irrelevant. That is the simple truth of the matter, and it applies to fans of Jake the same way it applies to fans of Johnny and Robert and Leo and Downey and Pitt and all actors. No one will come out and say it on the red carpet, but it is said behind closed doors, and the facts bear it out.
I know that he asks for being called out on it; I just don't think anyone, him or whoever, deserves some of the ugly stuff that was said. I think there's being teasing & cheeky and then there's just downright hate. And some of that stuff was just hateful. He's still a person.
And I'm not saying that I don't mind him being called out on the deceitfulness. Part of me says that some of this has been done to preserve certain aspects of his personal life. I don't have a problem with that IF there had only been a few photo ops here & there, just like Failed said.
But because the whole thing went so obscenely over the top and at times, totally out of hand, i.e. Cockroachella, Buffalo Club, he is paying big time for those mistakes. Some of those mistakes his (the finger - both of them, at the camera and up Reese's butt, the reckless driving, the flipping off several times at the paps, the eggs incident, the spitting, geez, look at all of those, lol), some of them you know Reese's calls, and some of them by their handlers. Everyone shares the blame.
Now does he learn from that stuff that he did? Or is that how he is in real life and some of it just "escaped" in front of the cameras, thus tarnishing the image. Who knows.
I still don't know who the real Jake is. But that little baby footprint has altered my desire to just want to totally bop him on the head. Can't help it. And I know that if he goes & does another stinkin' photo op with her kids, trying to act like their stepdad again, I'll bow a gasket. I know I will. But gee whiz, you would think the guy would learn. You would think that someone (Austin, this means you, buddy) would tell him to knock that part of it off, for gosh sakes.
But hey, you can't tell people how to live either. You can spout off about it and be glad it isn't you. But you can't force people to do what you want or make them behave a certain way. Simply because we're dealing with humans here, lol. We are all different individuals with our own wills.
Okay, off to dinner after a little pool time. Man, that water was absolutely frigid. Made me think of the Ice Maiden there for a minute, LOLLLLL!!
And you are missing a big point, Truth. It's called money. And it's the fans, the paying fans who drive this stuff. Sure, the film may be good, but if the fans don't like it, then they're not going to spend the money to spend it. And if the movies don't sell tickets and the TV shows don't get advertising dollars because of viewership, then that show gets the big Cancellation.
I'm sorry, but I don't see how on earth you can say the fans have nothing to do with it. I totally, totally disagree.
wow, too bad I have to leave that hot button but I have to go.
oops, bow a gasket = blow a gasket
Truthy.... sort of get your point, but if that's true, why the heck do certain actors (jake included here) go to such lengths with pr. Surely it would be easier just to sit at home and live your life privately than parade around with coffee cups at farmer's markets. pimping your life out if its not helping your career seems a very strange way to behave in my opinion.
This is what happens when I get in a hurry.
I meant, if the fans don't like it, then they're not going to spend the money to see it.
Darnit!!
Truthy.... sort of get your point, but if that's true, why the heck do certain actors (jake included here) go to such lengths with pr.
Because actors are paid according to their status and market value.
Will Smith made $80 million from June 1, 2007 to June 1, 2008.
I think that the film is very important, and helps make someone a star. But it also depends upon the film. BBM wouldn't have been the same, and wouldn't have resulted in all the interest in the actors--Jake and Heath--if it had been someone else. Same with Pattison and Twilight. It's the combination of the material and the right stars that make a movie a huge hit--when you're not talking about "noise" movies like Transformers, where you could probably have monkeys in it and it would still bring them out.
I think people won't go to a film they are not interested in, no matter the star. That was true of Sweeney Tood, to take a Depp movie as an example. But I think the fact that Depp has so many fans did help Public Enemy, which probably wouldn't have hit the 100 million mark without him. The same thing is probably going on with Pitt and Inglorious Bastards.
And if it is truly all about the film, then why aren't all these stars out of the closet?
While it's not nice to be so mean, I think the reason that those JJ comments got so mean is that Jake/Reeke has overexposed themselves and Jake has been become a joke of himself. I think that he started the bearding to quite the gay rumours. How best to prove he was 100% straight than to date Reese Witherspoon, Oscar winning, straight and narrow woman. But Reeke has no chemistry and that is part of their problem. After 2 1/2 years, there are still so many people who doubt they are real. Also, they took the bearding and hit people over the head with it. Not only are we constantly blitzed with their mind numbingly boring photo ops, but their photo ops become an event- 30 to 50 pics at a clip each sometimes. Also, alot of their photo ops are so obviously staged-deserts, museums, front window seats at restaurants-that even people who think they are real label them PR whores. All of this has come to bite Jake in the ass. He started pre-bearding as an actor who was liked by everyone and rarely if ever got bad press. Now he become a wimpy, emasculated Mr. Witherspoon who follows her around like a pet on a leash and is her escort/bag holder. Reese always comes off as being dominant, cold and bitchy and has totally over ridden his persoanlity. One of the reasons I think Reeke will go on for many more years is that there is really no interest about either one individually. How else would they get any press? The other reason I think Reeke will go one for many years is the constant enforcement of the happy family and great stepdad routine. That's meant to show long term and permance on Jake's part. That's why it will be interesting to see what happens if Brothers is not a big hit and if POP bombs. Will Reese still want to strut around with her wonderful boyfriend when he hasn't had a hit movie in 3 years or more? Wish Jake would wise up and realize Reeke is not doing anything good for him.
Seems to me that it is all now the power of the Internet. Different media than the rags or ET. people get their news and info from the internet. It is so easy to create an image for an actor. The problem with Jake is that his PR plan hasnt worked. It bored the hell out of the rags and no one believed it on the internet except for the boobleheads. I am sure Jake is glad he has some work to do with the Hathaway movie and the promo for Brothers. Then comes Spring and PoP. Man if that flops who will Jake be then. Will he decide he needs to be his own man and do what used to work for him or still listen and believe in his Harem of Hags. Should be fun to watch.
It was all the people moved by the heart breaking film and his terrific portrayal of Jack that created the wave. Jake had a loyal following and tons of fans until PR stepped in. (m)
I was a fan before BBMT and it was great seeing tons of new ones join in.
Aren't you supposed to pick up fans from each movie, eventually amassing a wide variety of people who will go and see your latest no matter what it might be? Jake's PR sure burned off the BBMT fans with his bearding. I don't think they quite get the concept of keeping the bread-and-butter-fans while adding new ones to the manifest.
Zodiac was post BBM, pre Rendition and pre Reeke. (Truth in Television)
Zodiac was released in the US on March 2, 2007, when Reeke was in the early "sighted together but no pics" planted tabloid stories stage.
Zodiac was too long, really didn't have a conclusion and it was boring. March isn't a good date for a release either, so TPTB must have known it wasn't going to do well IMO. Jake was good in it and many fans of BBMT saw it beacuse he was in it.
Rendition: IMO unless the director changed it, I don't see how anyone could have raved about Rendition being a great script because it had too many holes/faults. Jake's name might have been first in the credits but most of the screen time went to the horrible horrible screecher Reese. In my very strong opinion (IMVSO?!) the failure of Rendition goes to the writer, director and to the screeching beard, NOT Jake. Everyone wants to pin the box office failure on him when of all the actors it firmly belongs on Reese. She had the most screen time, the story revolved more around her character and she was a horrid, awful actress. As usual, she managed to slither out of the blame on Rendition. Jake gets the brunt of it when it really belongs to her.
And if it is truly all about the film, then why aren't all these stars out of the closet? (destiny)
Exactly. Why is it when we go to a play or a musical we couldn't care less about the onstage actors or their personal lives? Because it's all about the story. So to say movies are all about the story and the actors' fame is a byproduct, is not completely true. Not totally false either but PR, public image and bearding is big business with movie actors, not the theater/play sector, for a reason.
I agreed with about everything most people have said, with the exception of Truth, lol.
It does take a good movie script first. But the actors have to carry it through and be believable. But it's all done for the viewers. If there were no viewers, there would be no money and no accolades. No money and no accolades means there would be none of these actors doing these shows with one of Mom's sheets over a clothesline in the backyard.
The fans have to buy it and the fans drive the popularity. The conventions, the merchandise, the dvd's, ITunes availability, it's all driven and done for the billfolds of Joe & Jane Q Public.
And I still haven't seen Rendition. I won't see it. The trailer drove me nuts everytime I saw it with Reese screeching "Just tell me where he issssss!!!" (geez, I'll never get that out of my head) and it was a war movie that came out at the height of the displeasure over the invasion of Iraq. I did not want to go see someone blindfolded & tortured.
Same reason why I know I won't go see Brothers in the theatre. One of the reasons. I don't want to sit in a theatre at Christmastime watching a dark, depressing war movie. I'll wait til it comes to HBO, watch it on one of my dogsitting people's houses or I'll rent it on Netflix when I can FF over those scenes that are so depressing.
It's horribly unfortunate that all the families and servicemen who personally experienced the tragedy of war can't FF themselves over this period in their lives. I wish they could. I just don't know if releasing that depressing/dark of a movie in December is the best idea. At Christmastime? Let's see. Do you want to laugh & have a good time with a comedy? Or be depressed by sibling cheating with sibling's wife while sibling is off to war with no hope of a happy ending and go see Brothers?
Duh. Which ticket do you think most people are going to buy?
I'm just afraid the timing of that movie's release with its theme is just not a good idea.
But then, maybe it's me because I'm just not a diehard, serious minded movie fan. I go to escape. So I could be proven totally worng, lol.
asdf, you made a point that I always thought was how it worked. You developed a fanbase and then built upon it. You didn't dump a fanbase and try to recreate a new one. HUH? Why would you want to lose the revenue that your original fanbase brought you? The idea for a PR firm/Coompany is not to lose revenue from a fanbase at all.
That's why it doesn't make sense for Jake's people to try to "lose" his BBM fanbase if that's one of the ideas being thrown out there.
The whole thing is just puzzling.
When you sit back and look at the whole picture, and you see this hot young guy who had a mystique about him, had some buzz about him, had some good movies under his belt, and then you try and totally revamp his image, put him with the Ice Maiden, try to make a stepdad out of him, and you end up with these horrible comments on blogs about him, not to mention alot of anger from fans, plus his physical appearance & demeanor changes considerably in a matter of 3 years time, it's like you're watching this movie and you want to rewind it back 3 years when things were good. Things are supposed to look better, lol. I don't think that's exactly the case here, unfortunately.
Okay, well back to Word. Kids are being put to bed @ Grandma & Grandpa's, tomorrow we make the trip down I-35 for the kid hand-off. Join up with little bro and sister in law for lunch at the Golden Corral because my nephew loves buffets, and then finally, finally, there will be some down time. woohoo!! This weekend has gone by in a flash.
And now of course, you know I had to go and say it. It's just a coincidence, though, cause who knows when this took place, but the irony of it all, lol...
I, the dumb butt said,
And I know that if he goes & does another stinkin' photo op with her kids, trying to act like their stepdad again, I'll bow a gasket. I know I will. But gee whiz, you would think the guy would learn. You would think that someone (Austin, this means you, buddy) would tell him to knock that part of it off, for gosh sakes.
And guess what we have today. A Reeke family outing. Courtesy of flynet.
It is hard. It is hard to feel bad when he does stuff like this, I do have to say. So I'll say nothing for now.
Sweet dreams, everyone.
Hello all,
Happy Birthday to Clarity!
Great song today and Out Spotlight, and I'm in my glory, I loved that last Lisa Gerrard song so much, I downloaded the entire Immortal Memory album, and it's just so good. My looooong drive today was wonderful as I listened to it. Thanks OMG!
About Jake - I no longer read those really bad comments. Of course, people have a right to an opinion about what he may or may not be doing, noone's saying that he can do no wrong and has to be completely worshipped, and I am no fan of bearding, believe me. But, some of these comments are really, really low, and I seriously doubt that they have any sensitivity towards gay rights, some people just enjoy being mean and nasty. I think people can voice their opinions and criticisms and disappointment without descending to that level. I no longer read those kinds of comments.
And you are missing a big point, Truth. Its called money.
Prairegirl, my whole post was about money. I do not think I could have mentioned it more. I illustrated every example I gave with a reference to money. You have entirely missed the point, and made the mistake that I sought to correct. I will try to make it more clear and concise.
The amount of people who will go and see a film simply because they are a fan of one of the actors who star in it is tiny. The film reciepts generated by an actors fanbase are financially insignificant. I have shown this already and I can give many more examples.
Arent you supposed to pick up fans from each movie, eventually amassing a wide variety of people who will go and see your latest no matter what it might be?
No you arent, asdf, and the reason for that is because it does not work, or rather it works to such a small degree as to be insignificant. Brad Pitt had been starring in a wide variety of films for well over a decade when he starred in The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford. That film grossed about $15 million worldwide. That means, at its absolute best, Brad Pitt has a worldwide fanbase that can be relied upon to generate $15 million. And that is assuming every single dollar of that came from people who were only seeing it because it had Brad Pitt in it, which is terrible assumption. And then you have to remember that the studio would only see half of that $15 million, and that the film cost over $30 million to make, not including the cost of promoting and distributing it.
And I am barely scraping the surface here. This is all so much more complicated then is painted on WFT2 and OMG. Too many times I see people conflating studio PR with actor PR with film PR, whilst being totally ignorant of what a PR firm actually does. Or how their role differs from that of an agent or a manager. Maybe another time.
Truth you making some interesting points about the business that is Hollywood and it is a business.
You can see how it has certain slots that they pick certain actors for types in HW. And it seems like it is not at the hands of the actors but others who see them in what their place is in HW. You can see that there was a spot for a leading man in certain age brackets, Clooney, the Depp, then Leo, with Jake being the strong one to come up behind Leo, but before Shia, but now it looks like Patterson might edge out Shia.
With any business there is strategic planning and from the studio side and from the actor's side both determine their future goals, and create plans how to reach them.
Any big agency presents an assessment to their client or their potential client showing their potential and the prospect of their future and how that agency can help them achieve that. The agency would do assessment just for their own sake. They need to determine at if their investment in this client is in their best interest as well.
Good discussion and some interesting points made. The main flaw I see in Truths logic is that in order to finance a film, it requires an actor who can be counted on to bring people to the theater. That's why we see star names linked to films being developed, but most never come to fruition. It's part of the effort to get the project funded. That's why actors get classed as a list, b list etc. It's a projected measure of the actors ability to pull in an audience. PRs job is to nurture the fan base, not drive it away. I've said many times that in the conference room where the plan was hatched, it most likely all looked good on paper. Like a no-brainer. Kill 2 birds with one stone even. Jake needs to look straight for those leading man roles, Reese needs to appear desirable despite being dumped. But the plan backfired horribly. As Jersey Tom pointed out, the internet is the principal means of sharing information now and too many people knew Jake was gay/Toothy by the time the plan was implemented.
Sorry, Truth, I missed your point. Sometimes things go over my head, as you can see by my sometimes lame reasons for not seeing certain movies. I'm really not a serious movie fan. So we do agree on the $$$ part. Thanks for coming back, though. It probably is all very complicated.
Look at me; I woke up all uncomfortable and couldn't go back to sleep. I'll pay for it later but I had to get up for awhile. And my neck was all contorted. What a mess, lol.
Hey Buffalo Girl!!! Good to see you. You are the wise one for not reading that stuff. There weren't a whole lot of comments on that particular post, about 25 I think, so yeah, I usually stop reading when they get all stupid. But this particular one, I was dumbfounded by all the comments and could not get over it. Really sad.
The Flynet pics of Jake, Reese and the kids from Thursday are tagged exclusive and no internet use. Would explain why they aren't on IHJ.
Another win-win: Reeke arranges the photo op under their conditions and Flynet makes more money with exclusive pictures.
Don't worry, we will be seeing those Flynet pics of the happy family in next weeks US Weekly along with yet another story about how much in love they are, what a great stepdad Jake is, how the kids adore him and how Reese is considering marrying Jake now because he and her kids have become such a wonderful family and ending the story with how lucky and blessed Reese to have such an adoring and wonderful boyfriend. God, I just made myself gag.
Don't forget, the US Reekly story will also have:
Reese paying for lady's groceries story
Reese's kids at Chilmark Race
Reese's upcoming movie, all about how it's shooting in Philly and how she's like everybody else and how the fans adore her
Reese being Avon's global ambassador
Reese being an Avon breast cancer and violence against women activist
Reese's new Avon fragrance "In Bloom" available now from your local Avon sales representative
Jake who??
Avon is coming out with a new fragrance called "In Bloom" on September 15, 2009.
we will be seeing those Flynet pics of the happy family in next weeks US Weekly
Celebrities in the world are nervous.
Avon is coming out with a new fragrance called "In Bloom" on September 15, 2009.
September 15 is Tuesday, tabloids are comming out on Wednesday - yes, this week is the right time for Avon and Reese promotion.
Yeah I am sure the masses will be out in droves knocking people over just to get their hands on those pictures of the next holy family. Those two will not sell one magazine. At this point the pictures will be there to fill space and just make Jake a little more heterosexual and family oriented for next Spring. I wouldnt doubt they had to pay US Weekly just to put them in the magazine.
The main flaw I see in Truths logic is that in order to finance a film, it requires an actor who can be counted on to bring people to the theater. Thats why we see star names linked to films being developed, but most never come to fruition. Its part of the effort to get the project funded. Thats why actors get classed as a list, b list etc. Its a projected measure of the actors ability to pull in an audience. PRs job is to nurture the fan base, not drive it away.
That is not the job of an actors PR. I can see you are not taking on board the point about the irrelevancy of a fanbase when it comes to acting. Let me illustrate my point again.
Go to Google, and type (official website) followed by the name of your favorite major league baseball team. I guarantee that you will find they have one, and that it is the first link on the results page. Now do the same thing again, but replace the name of the baseball team with the name of your favorite currently working musical act. I would say that it is 99% certain that they will have an official website. Now repeat the process, replacing the musical act with name of a currently working author. I would say you will find 90% of them have an official website.
Now try searching for the official website of your favorite actor.
Spot the difference? If your favorite actor is obscure, try searching for the official websites of twenty of the most famous living actors you can think of. I would be surprised if even 5% of them have an official website. The reason for this is clear. For a sports team or a singer or an author, a fanbase is incredibly important; for an actor, a fanbase is incredibly unimportant.
A fanbase thrives on consistency and continuity. For a set number of months, the Yankees go out and play baseball. Britney Spears will release a pop album every 2-3 years. John Grisham next book will be a legal drama etc. The product is consistent. The product has the same voice. It has continuity.
Actors do not have that. Brad Pitt can go from being a hapless bank executive in a $80 million romantic comedy to a tortured drug addict in a $20 million gritty drama and round it off with a turn as a bioengineered super solider in a $180 million scifi action adventure. And each of those films will have a different writer, different director, different co stars, different producers and so on. There is too much inconsistency there to produce a financially significant fanbase. Which is why PR does not care to nurture one.
You do not put Brad Pitt in a film to reach his fanbase, you put him in your film to get visibility. You do it because you know that for the 10 to 15 month cycle it takes to go from signing him to the film hitting the theaters, the name of your film will be linked to his. And his name will be linked to Angelina Jolie. And Jennifer Aniston. And George Clooney.
Brad Pitt gets you the promise of ink. And you can use that promise to sell the film to the bankers and studios that finance your film. But Brad does not get you the promise of a significant audience. Because an actors fanbase is financially irrelevant.
But Brad does not get you the promise of a significant audience. Because an actors fanbase is financially irrelevant.
Yes, Brad does get you the promise of a significant audience. Audience, not die hard fans. Just like Tom, George or Will.
That's the reason they are Hollywood A-list, that's the reason they get a lot of money.
While I appreciate the extreme effort, Truth, of your enabling us all to see your view, I have to wonder now why.
Seems we're trying to be persuaded that PR has no job? No worthiness? That photo ops are not for certain benefits? That actors/actresses are not marketed a certain way? That fanbases are not important when it comes to movies and TV shows?
I think I'm smelling a rat now.
If what you're saying is true, then why the movie one-sheets, why the teaser poster showing the star? Why publicity that mentions, sometimes over and over again, the actor's name? Why would studio PR mention previous films of the actor, director, writer, etc. when promoting a new one? If is was just all about the movie, why doesn't PR push the plot only? Why not have an ad campaign that talks about the cinematography, or costumes? Why such focus on whose faces the audience will get to see for their bucks?
Because it's the star, the actor, the cast, that gets butts into the seats, and the quality of the film that garners the word of mouth.
PR counts on fans for opening weekend BO numbers, and to think otherwise is foolish, and trying to convince others as such is egregious.
Also, all of my favorite actors have websites of their own. Who are you following?
So if an actor's fanbase is irrelevant and the movie is the most important thing, then why can't a gay actor come out?
the official website of your favorite actor.
An "official website" is the gauge for a fanbase?!
Audience matters = actor's PR + public image + popularity + carisma + likeability matters.
Sorry that my 09:58 comments seems a bit harsh. I had to take down my previous one before that, too, lol.
It's just interesting to me, that's all.
Studios cast the actor and then worry about the script. It isn't smart business but they do it all the time. A big blockbuster like GI Joe or Avatar is going to do well but it really helps to have a Meaghan Fox or someone with teen appeal like Channing or Shia but a Will Smith, Matt Damon, Angelina Jolie takes a movie to the next level. You can't argue with that. Jake is not the type to take a movie to the next level yet. If PoP is a huge blockbuster and spawns highly anticipated sequels he may reach that level.
LOL said...
So if an actor's fanbase is irrelevant and the movie is the most important thing, then why can't a gay actor come out?
I love to hear the answer to that one.
I think an actor does acquire a fanbase over time. A variety of unique fans. An actor doesnt throw his fanbase over the side of the boat like Jake did especially when it is the only one he has. To me that is just not good business. Actually damn stupid. I bet some of the folks who loved and were stunned by the good looks and great body of Brad Pitt in Thelma and Louise still today run out to see his movies. Not many of the folks who loved Jack Twist will run out to see PoP. Jakes PR has saw to that. I think they are under the impression that PoP is gonna garner a following of the type of fans they want Jake to have. I dont see it happening. I firmly believe that Jake has made huge some career mistakes and those whose tried to get rich off of his image of being Mr. Hetero not being gay will turn their backs on him as he has on his loyal and loving gay fanbase.
Of course they want a reliable fanbase - fans who will come out to see an actor no matter what part he plays because they know they'll get a good performance, or they like his style in portraying characters, or for whatever reason. Why wouldn't HW financial types want to encourage that, ticket buyers who are a given? I don't think it's any different than it is for musicians, authors, etc. They'd all love to have a reliable fanbase.
" But Brad does not get you the promise of a significant audience. Because an actors fanbase is financially irrelevant."
I could not agree with you more. The eye opener for me was "Dr. Parnassus". It is Heath last film, has Johnny Depp, Jude Law and Colin Farrell - all actors with a solid "fanbase" - and it was not able to get a distributor until some weeks ago and has now a "limited" release, means it will play in LA, NY and perhaps Chicago.....
"Because it's the star, the actor, the cast, that gets butts into the seats, and the quality of the film that garners the word of mouth."
Sorry, but I don´t believe it:
Heath Ledger - Candy
Brad Pitt - The assasination...
A. Jolie - A mighty heart
Clooney - Leatherheads
Tom Cruise - Lions for Lambs (had also Streep and Redford)
Only some examples....
Only exception is Will Smith, but he has not been in a small indie movie in years.
I am sure the times of the overpaid A-listers will be soon over...
I know I'm not saying that the actors make a movie. I think we're sort of getting off the original point a little bit.
Weren't we talking about the strategy of movie stars' PR?
Because it's the star, the actor, the cast, that gets butts into the seats, and the quality of the film that garners the word of mouth.
Now I might not run out and see a boring, badly reviewed movie at the theatre if it has my favorite actor, but 100% I will go and buy (not rent) the dvd. Crazy I know but that's the way I am and I suspect others are too. We've been talking about stars and box office - what about stars and dvd sales? Because distributors make a hell of a lot more profit from dvd sales than seats in a theatre. IMO that's where the power of the fanbase is.
^^Those are rare examples - I usually see everything George Clooney, Brad Pitt, Tom Cruise, Leo, Johnny Depp, Christian Bale, Daniel Day-Lewis, Jake, and would have Heath Ledger. I missed Mighty Heart and The Changeling, Lions for Lambs, and Valkyrie, but really wanted to see them. Because I know they are usually associated with good projects, but even they can't have a winner all the time. Sometimes the plot won't appeal to me, but generally these are actors I know will give wonderful performances, as well as have something to say, fantasy escapism, or just a damn entertaining film. I'm going to see Inglorious Basterds today. I would have seen Public Enemies if they dragged an unknown guy off the streetcorner to play John Dillinger, because I love that era and the premise. But as it happened, they picked the wonderfully romantic Johnny Depp to play him. :) I've seen most of Jake's films and I think he is great in them with a lot of potential, but he was also wonderfully romantic in Brokeback Mountain. I watch Heath's performance and feel nothing but great joy seeing him now, I see that character as so full of passion now, where I once saw only his stoic-ness. There was so much there, under the surface but not expressed. Heath was just phenomenal.
Summer blockbuster season made around 24 billion dollars this season - so someone went to the movies, I'd say.
Btw Donnie Darko was a box office flop but look at the video and dvd sales. I bought it when it came out on video, then re-bought it when it came out on dvd, then bought it again when the director's cut came out, lol. 3 times! If I had Blue Ray and/or if/when special edition came out I would get those versions too. Those DD home viewing video/dvd sales, the original and the director's cut, turned the movie into a cult hit it is today and it created Jake's first fanbase. The butts in the seats at the theatre didn't do that.
I agree with Mojo, that with certain films, or to a certain extent, t's about taking it to the next level, which is what I was talking about with films that might not have gotten the audiences they did but for the star, like Public Enemy, or movies that become mega-blockbusters because of who is in it. I know tons of people (myself included) who went to Iron Man in large part because of RDJ. Some of it is trusting him to make a "smarter" popcorn movie than most.
But RDJ didn't bring them in for Zodiac either. And that is why I also agree that we're seeing the decline of the A-star system. People will not turn out for just any movie, which is why even the biggest star has flops, or films that are more like indie films in their appeal and/or are more about hoping to get awards, notice for acting chops, etc.
I do think the story and kind of movie is the #1 thing that brings people into the theaters, and that is one reason why I don't get why we can't have out actors. Look at Star Trek, nobody really knew who any of those actors were, and nobody could care less that we didn't see Quinto on the red carpet with a woman. Yes, Star Trek is a franchise, but most films of that ilk being made are based on something else, not original material.
If an actors fanbase doesn't equal money why would a studio pay one actor 1 million and another actor 20 million?
When big earners make small movies they either don't take a paycheck or take a very small one. They crave variety and prestige so they will do something like TIoDP for nothing. That movie will be a cable, DVD, event. It's too weird for theaters and a terrible example of the point you're trying to make.
I know tons of people (myself included) who went to Iron Man in large part because of RDJ. Some of it is trusting him to make a "smarter" popcorn movie than most.
I forgot about Iron Man! I was surprised at how much I liked it, and it was in large part due to RDJ. He has a fiery quality, I loved the scene of him lifting up his welding mask. Can't wait for the next one. I do like this trend of really great actors starring in and taking up the superhero movies a notch. They really are fun, and actors like Gary Oldman in Batman give them so much more dimension and soul.
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